Hanging out at HEAVENS CAFE'

Progressive Rock meets musical theater in the fertile imagination of John Miner

By John Collinge, Progression Editor

John Miner is a rugged individualist in the classic American sense, a survival trait common to the progressive rock rank and file. He has already written, produced, directed and performed in a critically acclaimed musical theater production in Las Vegas and Los Angeles, "Heavens Cafe'", co founded the Vegas based Tributary Music Label and plays in his own prog band, Art Rock Circus.

"I basically like having control of my own thing" says Miner who's real estate dabbling allow the freedom to have such independence.

Honing his chops and progressive orientation with California band Mantra Sunrise, Miner found a generous benefactor in Mike Lewis, who initially bankrolled Tributary and helped the innovative musician bring his ambitious dream to the theatrical stage. Six years after it's debut in Las Vegas and a longer run in Los Angeles the allegorical Heavens Cafe' still has legs. A leap to the silver screen could be next as a live album of songs from the Vegas stage production continues to sell quite well. With Las Vegas being fertile ground for the performing arts, Miner needn't go far to flesh out his various projects". I just find the best smoking players I can to come in and do the session work," he says.

And meanwhile, the Art Rock Circus band has found a niche in the region's bustling music community. "When we play we have a healthy following not far off the jam band crowd, although we are not "jam band" per se, but we are complex, interesting and different, and there are always people who like and appreciate that".

In the following interview Miner explains among other things, why an otherwise sane person would apply progressive rock to musical theater:

Progression: You have a pretty interesting family background in the arts, which apparently had a big influence on you. Please tell us about it.

Miner: " I come from a family of artists and musicians. My mother has her own art gallery in Sedona AZ and my sister is a well known batikist and designer, she has traveled extensively and many of her pieces are now in museums. My father was involved heavily in musical theater when I was a child, so I was around theater a lot as a kid. I think that had a big effect on me as far as theatrical influence. Both my parents were always supportive of free thinking and not necessarily going along with the masses or the general consensus of the population....always supportive of doing you own thing, sort of a 70's paradigm I suppose. I also played a lot of golf when I was young and went to University on a golf scholarship. Golf took me a lot of places and allowed me time to do other things as well. I started golf a age 4 and guitar at age 8. By the time I was in my mid twenties I had been playing guitar almost 20 years! I was getting pretty good on the instrument. I have always enjoyed dabbling in alternative tunings which even to this day still fascinate me. Before that, I always felt I sounded too much like someone else. With the tunings it was like opening a doorway to a whole new sound and approach and I came to realize I was developing a unique sound on the guitar.

Progression:: What was your beginning orientation toward progressive music?

Miner: Yeah, I started working with different or "alternative" tunings and found an area to work in that was relatively fresh and certainly exciting to me, like uncharted waters really. I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, stuff like that. I think somewhere along the way I was turned on to some of the more progressive bands or better know ones and then found out about many other ones from that golden age. What separated the progressive bands from the standard rock fair were the rhythm sections, what was happening there I found much more interesting and exciting. The use of odd metering and polyrhythmic structuring and of course the dynamic of it all. It seemed quite clear to me that from an artistic standpoint music must go there in that direction and more specifically into the world of odd metering and such. So much music is written in 4/4 time, and I thought, why are other meters not getting equal exposure? There is no reason you cannot bring in strong memorable melodic lines into other meters. I found that idea to me a new challenge. I had dinner with Yes drummer Alan White and we talked about this concept and agreed that the challenge is to write melodically in odd time. That is one of the distinguishing differences of progressive music. When I think of examples of this kind of thing in musical theater the first thing that comes to mind is the Jesus Christ Superstar tune, "Everything's All Right" : That's in 5/4 yet very melodic. It's a wonderful song. So you have to ask, why are songwriters neglecting odd meters? Progressive artists are working in those meters some but still not enough yet. My point is that over the longer course of time, say a few hundred years, inevitably will lead to this sort of thing.

Progression::Before becoming involved with Heavens Cafe', what bands were you part of?

Miner:The first band I put together was called Mantra Sunrise in the early to mid 90's around central California. We were a three piece band, myself, Joel Bissing on bass and vocals and Wayne Garabedian. Joel was very, very talented both as a player and writer, and all three of us were like minded as far as the desire to explore music more progressively than what was typically going on at the time. We were a good band and sold well and very strong live. Being active around the grunge scene was a challenge as we would bring flutes and violins on-stage with guest features and such and played a much more dynamic set than what people were commonly used to. At first I figured our audience would be older and more "sophisticated"...and we did have those ...but for the most part we were attracting a younger set, lots of 15 year old girls with nose rings. They were attracted to the almost gothic quality Joel had in his voice I believe. We had major labels starting to court us soon after we finished our self titled debut album. One record industry exec told me it was his favorite album to have sex to! But they just had a hard time to place us marketing wise in that current scene. I think Def American or Sony were giving the most attention. We were doing 20 minute "art rock" pieces with odd meters and dark tunings, in a way looking back, similar to Zeppelin circa Physical Graffiti era stuff, when they were dabbling with progressive rock...but us with a more contemporary vocal approach.

Progression::So what spelled the end for a band showing so much promise?

Miner:We were the hottest band around at that time drawing 200 to 300 people a show. We would typically sell out our CDs and every gig, which was pretty good money for us at the time, We didn't venture too far, staying mostly in central or northern California. We were based out of Fresno which proudly had a pretty hot little scene going on at the time which of course we were very much a part of. To answer your question we started working on a second album and with Joel leaving for an art scholarship to Seattle, too much alcohol and drugs and all that just got in the way, typical rock fan fair, both we were all very moody and difficult, the drummer quit..you get the idea! I did however really like working in a three piece band. It's unanimous or it's odd man out. I don't like four piece bands with two on two taking sides.

Progression::So what lured you to Las Vegas?

Miner:I met a private investor (Mike Lewis) in Vegas who loved my work in Mantra Sunrise and the new stuff I was working on. We came up with the idea of starting a record label. He threw some money at it and we got it off the ground. That was the basis of Tributary which Mike coined, off the mainstream! We founded it in 1996. The Mantra Sunrise album was released on Tributary in 2000. My new project Art Rock Circus, Saunders and Syroid, a local disc "Live at Wilson's" were all shaping the label at that time. Eight bands in a little experimental scene that was trying to flourish. We do have our own recording facility but the logistics of getting far away bands out here to do a record here is not so easy. I would like to do that, and much more a possibility these days with the moderate success of the label.

Progression::How did the Heavens Cafe' concept evolve? Moving from being in a band to developing a full blown theatrical production is no small feat!

Miner:"Well, there was a theater connection out there, and interest in putting on the rock opera, and Mike and I got involved of and before long we had put together the whole plan to make it happen for real. Most of the Material for the music was left over stuff from the Mantra Sunrise era, and of course some new ideas. I was always into concept albums growing up. If I'm in a car and driving for 5 hours I have time to listen to a concept album. I don't have a problem with putting my mind on something for an hour or longer and letting it take me away. Sometimes I do think progressive rock artist do have "attention deficit disorder. Techo music is really the opposite of that. The music of progressive compositions is changing so much from moment to moment, I guess we just can't stay on one idea for too long or we get bored! ADD....I think it is a good thing...certainly I have a case of it! I don't like to stay on one musical idea for too long! But getting back to Heavens Cafe'...I was working on it towards the tail end of Mantra Sunrise and with Mike and Christine's help we started putting together this team of individuals around here to bring it to life. Charis Wallace had just choreographed Jesus Christ Superstar in New York, and Christine Keppel was involved with the Follies Bergere show here in Vegas at the Tropicana Hotel. I knew Christine from the local art scene and then she found Charis. Christine was instrumental in pulling together the right people in the dance world. The dancers were very important to the show, both with modern and jazz background. You know...we have a lot of talented people here in Vegas doing the most mundane, horribly trite stuff just to get work. This gave some of them an opportunity not often found out on the strip, something really creative and I think it was greatly appreciated.

Progression::How extensive was the production and where was it staged?

Miner:It involved about 35 people, twelve dancers, four musicians, two choreographers and assistants, six tech people, seven or eight actors or singers, and of course foot people hitting the streets promotion the show. Some of dancers and cast were from shows like Siegfried and Roy, artists doing it on the side or moonlighting it. For sure an art thing really, but we still paid everyone as well...I really believe in doing that...you just get more professionalism if you do. We did six performances at the Flamingo Theater and then later at the Charleston Performing Arts Center, 1997 and 1998.

Progression::What is the play's storyline?

Miner:Basically there is this hedonistic pleasure seeker, a typical Vegas lounge lizard type guy named "Classical Man" He dies and his death is sort of open to interpretation, very nonspecific. He is escorted to this place called Heavens Cafe' where he meet four aspects of his own personality-who he just was "Classical Man" who he is now "Lark", the potential of what he can become "Robin" and the alter ego, a non sexual entity named Kral, the comic relief of the show. Lark is in a state of confusion, bewilderment. His guardian angel is there too. Essentially, the angel says she is tired of seeing the same mistakes being made over and over, hoping Lark will get his soul's evolution to the next level. There is also a "western" style God passing judgment on his past life- either go on and get past that and move on or he'll end up being reincarnated back on Earth. There is quite a bit of humor in the show to keep it entertaining on a surface level, but if you look into it there are a lot of deeper metaphysical principles at work here as well. While at Heavens Cafe' he also meets one of his possible potentials, in this case a 60's style hippie chick named Robin who he finds rather attractive and a bit more spiritually sophisticated, then ends up falling in love, searching for her in his inner mind labyrinth, fails the test from the Tower of Information and finally unites with her near the end ....then travels back to earth in the mother womb to become the baby Robin. Simple enough right? lol! I am sure it all sounds a bit complicated but quite appropriate for progressive rock! Each song is a progression of the story involving all these different characters. It really does open up and allow for a lot of creativity for the musicians and dancers. Nearly the whole thing is in odd meters and polyrhythmic structures and the like, even some meterless music as well. The choreography was having fits until I explained the time signatures to her. These young dancers had never done anything like this before, day dancing in 11/8, 7/8 or 5/4. It was very challenging for them. After the shows some of these dancers would come up to me and thank me for giving them the opportunity to be involved in something so different and creative. Most of them were into hip hop stuff like that. It was very touching and just goes to show that much of what people like is really just what there exposed to. So in a way this was one of the best ways for progressive rock to find a new audience.

Progression::I suppose it's safe to assume they were never exposed to this kind of music before, at least in the context of performance.

Miner:Absolutely, kind of progressive rock in disguise! Many of the people who would come to the shows were really more"theater people". It certainly has an appeal to more of a mass audience than some of the stuff I have done before and since...yet to me it is some of the strangest material I have written. We have moved more CD's of Heavens Cafe' Live than any other disc on the label, and in a way to an unexpecting audience. Maybe 6000 discs.

Progression::Selling 6000 discs is pretty impressive.

Miner:Many sold through the internet, it caught on some in the progressive world and in the theater world.

Progression::Why only six performances?

Miner:Funding really- it costs a lot to pull it off correctly. There were scheduling problems too with the theaters. We did six in Vegas and 18 in Los Angeles with the Insurgo Theater Group in 2003. So there were about 24 all together. Not bad really. I am sure we will do more performances in the future. I have just been working on other things for right now. It is fun to revisit from time to time. but it is a complex undertaking. I started to call it Headache Cafe' after a while! lol!

Progression::What did you like most and least about Heavens Cafe"

Miner:Getting on stage and getting it done correctly. When that happens it is just a great feeling. So many things have to click. Some of the early shows had horrific technical problems- wireless mikes picking up interference from taxi cabs, bad lighting cues, etc....we would never seem to get enough tech rehearsal. But when we finally nailed it, it felt triumphant. The least fun was dealing with all the red tape, and I mean mountains of it. When we did the Charleston Arts Center, we were the first "rock" anything to ever perform in there. These stuffy theater people just couldn't get over the word "rock" having anything to do with culture. I had to explain that we had this choreographer from NYC and all these pro dancers from big shows on the strip like Siegfried and Roy and all that. Good art is always pushing to edge I suppose, and we had a really tough time getting dates nailed down with all their rules and regulations. I remember the day before opening night there was some tech geek with a decibel meter, saying we were too loud and in violation of OSHA standards. I am thinking, what a bunch of crap when you have bands like Megadeath playing down the street at the Hard Rock. It was just Gestapo madness!

Progression::What is the big difference between gigging in a band and doing a theater show?

Miner:Well for one thing, in the theater, the band is not the center of attention- it's the actors, and that of course is how it should be. but being a part of the whole thing is just amazing because of that. Most band connect with themselves and then with the audience, but in the theater there are actors and vocalists and dancers and a choreographer and someone directing the overall vision, and of course all the behind the scenes people- make up artists, set designers, and lighting designers. It's not just standard rock fair with blinking lights and all that. Everything has a purpose that supports the higher cause. Everything is more thought out. We could do this interview and talk about just anyone of the aspects, for example say the lighting and design. It is all so important.

Progression::The kind of music you do seems to work well for theater.

Miner:Yeah, I suppose so. If one experiments a lot and is open to it, things can start sounding very theatrical. I like to experiment.

Progression::What is your definition of progressive rock?

To me it is simple. The fusion of classical music and rock, and course a million and one spin offs, but that is what is basically is. Now as a guitarist, I am into two things mostly, as mentioned earlier, alternative tunings and odd meters. Not that this hasn't been done before, but I think there is still a lot of uncharted waters there, and that being the vast ocean I choose to swim in. I am sure you will here a lot of things in my playing, and classical is one of them, but I don't nicely into any a category and even with the progressive rock thing, but that is the easiest place most people put me. I don't always relate to gymnastic soloing and whirling keyboards as much of the genre seems to identify itself with. But I do love odd meters, and polyrhythms, long conceptual pieces, so here I am! But as in classical music the bigger picture is always more important than and of the pieces that make it up. I think that is why I love the theater, and classical. So in that sense I am very much progressive rock...but I would rather be a small part of something great than a great part of something small.

Progression::What other projects are you involved with?

Miner:Well the rock trio that did Heavens Cafe' is my band Art Rock Circus. We release another recording called "A Passage to Clear". Next up is a double CD set called "Tell a Vision" 86 minutes of progressive rock type stuff, very 70's sounding and a really big undertaking which we just finished recording over the last three years. I think it is no doubt my best work to date. We also have a lot of film footage from Heavens Cafe' so I think a DVD of that is in the can down the road as well. Maybe a few years away. I am also doing some extensive guitar work on Ken Jaquess's album "Book of the Dead" with his K2 project. It's going to be a really interesting album with Shaun Guerin, Allan Holdsworth and Ryo Okumoto.

Progression::Any other long term goals as far as music?

Miner:To be prolific, and constantly developing artistically, as a musician, artist, song crafter, producer and engineer. That should keep me pretty busy , don't you think?

Progression: Thanks John!